AI manager ... toggle

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AI manager ... toggle

Postby GEL » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:22 pm

Time and time again when I'm playing a game and review the opposition's line-up I have to wonder about the AI's acumen regarding line-up
composition. I notice among the 'generate manager profiles' menu the choice to toggle certain criteria as 'global'. Perhaps a toggle regarding
line-up composition on a global level is in order. It could read as a menu of :1 thru' 9, ''try to adhere to these filters when placing a batter''.
Not necessarily a specific player (by name) but certain attributes as in BA,OBP,SLG ...etc.

I realize this may not pertain to season replays (for those interested in playing RW line-ups) as much as it does to fantasy/draft leagues/teams.
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Re: AI manager ... toggle

Postby DDBBAdmin » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:25 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. I am always in favor of adding more opportunities for users to fine-tune the game. I have added this suggestion to our list and we will try and implement it in version 7.

Just for your information, here is the algorithm used by the CM when creating a lineup when the "based on real-life ability" option is selected:

  • Select the best player at each position. When "real-life ability" was chosen as the selection method, the computer selects the player with the best DRAT value (DRAT is equal to the estimated WAR for that player). If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the DRAT vs LHP is used, otherwise DRAT vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 3-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 4-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 5-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 6-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the lead-off hitter by picking the player with the best OBP on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OBP vs LHP is used, otherwise OBP vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 2-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OBP on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OBP vs LHP is used, otherwise OBP vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 7-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 8-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • DH-Only: The CM picks the 9-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.

NOTE: that if usage limits are enabled, players will not be selected for the lineup if they are on track for exceeding their usage. If you are wondering why a really good player is not included in a lineup it may be because he has been overused.
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Re: AI manager ... toggle

Postby johnnybravo17 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:18 pm

DDBBAdmin wrote:Thanks for the suggestion. I am always in favor of adding more opportunities for users to fine-tune the game. I have added this suggestion to our list and we will try and implement it in version 7.

Just for your information, here is the algorithm used by the CM when creating a lineup when the "based on real-life ability" option is selected:

  • Select the best player at each position. When "real-life ability" was chosen as the selection method, the computer selects the player with the best DRAT value (DRAT is equal to the estimated WAR for that player). If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the DRAT vs LHP is used, otherwise DRAT vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 3-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 4-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 5-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 6-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the lead-off hitter by picking the player with the best OBP on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OBP vs LHP is used, otherwise OBP vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 2-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OBP on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OBP vs LHP is used, otherwise OBP vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 7-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • Next, the CM picks the 8-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.
  • DH-Only: The CM picks the 9-hole hitter by picking the player with the best OPS on the team. If this is for a lineup vs LHP then the OPS vs LHP is used, otherwise OPS vs RHP is used.

NOTE: that if usage limits are enabled, players will not be selected for the lineup if they are on track for exceeding their usage. If you are wondering why a really good player is not included in a lineup it may be because he has been overused.


This is incredibly useful information ... thanks for that.

Incidentally, it follows very closely with my manual methods of creating lineups, except I choose the leadoff and #2 hitters before filling the #5 and #6 slots. If my top OBP guys also have decent OPS, I'd much rather have them hitting in the 1-2 slots as opposed to 5-6. I'm perfectly OK with "wasting" powerful bats in the 1-2 spots if it means that my 4 best hitters are going to get the most PA. But that's a matter of personal preference.

Also, after the whole thing is finished, if I can toggle a couple of guys and get a steady diet of Left - Right - Left - Right going, then I do so. The idea being to make it difficult for the opposing team to get by with using specialty relievers for more than a batter or two ... regardless of where we are in the batting order at the time. And finally, after all of that, if one of the first two batters is an accomplished base stealer, I make sure that HE leads off ... even if the other guy has a higher OBP.
--JB
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Re: AI manager ... toggle

Postby DDBBAdmin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:08 pm

Great stuff, thanks for sharing it! I had a similar base stealing check in the algorithm at one point but took it out for some reason. I have made a note of your comments and will consider them when I update this algorithm in Version 7. Thanks!
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Re: AI manager ... toggle

Postby GEL » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:09 am

Hey...thanks for the share. I like knowing how the game thinks. And more to the point of my original suggestion. It would be great to be able to determine what the CM values
and what to weigh. The example of using OPS is a good one because of the nature of the stat. This is a stat that, altho' maybe convenient, does not do a very good job of determining
value, in terms of run creation. It's actually a quasi-stat of two disparate numbers mashed together, each using different scales that don't relate to one another. OBP is more valuable than SLG
by a factor of almost 2:1 . Using OPS gives SLG and OBS equal weight. So it would be nice if one were able to determine the weights given to certain criteria.
But this info is helpful in allowing me to at least anticipate the game acumen .

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Re: AI manager ... toggle

Postby sfmac » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:44 pm

Just for general info, I have long used the following formula for determining offensive value for placing players in lineup:

(OBP*1.87)+SLG

This gives OBP a reasonable boost in relationship to SLG. It may not be perfect but does seem to hold up in the long run.
Mac

CORRECTION - should be (OPB*1.8)+SLG
Forgive my senility :oops:
"Statistics show that people who have the most birthdays live the longest".
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Re: AI manager ... toggle

Postby rdrunner » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:18 pm

sfmac wrote:Just for general info, I have long used the following formula for determining offensive value for placing players in lineup:

(OBP*1.87)+SLG

This gives OBP a reasonable boost in relationship to SLG. It may not be perfect but does seem to hold up in the long run.
Mac

CORRECTION - should be (OPB*1.8)+SLG
Forgive my senility :oops:


I always have valued OBP more than anything else. When I am able to draft a team I always go for high OBP.

My personal belief is a team loaded with guys who get on base frequently will beat a team full of sluggers a majority of the time, especially since these days sluggers strikeout 150-200 times a season.

I also want good contact guys since making contact moves runners and forces defenses to make plays where a strikeout does neither. You never know what happens once a ball is put into play.

I read someplace that there are those out there who think a strikeout is just an out like any other out so it doesn't matter how many times someone strikes out. Of course, those people are assuming that if that batter, who struck out 150 times, made contact even half of those times it would always result in an out. I totally disagree with that. But even at that, some outs are better outs than others, such as moving runners along.

Just my opinion, but I can't stand high strikeout players.
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Re: AI manager ... toggle

Postby GEL » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:05 am

Hey SFMAC ... you've been reading my mail 8-) Just to look at a quick example (but not uncommon) take two players' /// line: both have about the same OPS, but because the stat itself
is comprised of bad math it doesn't tell us anything about just how different these two players actually are:
mike moustakas: .281/.317 /.558 /.874
jose abreu: .299 / .355 /.518 / .872

So...w/i DDBB it would be nice to be able to set global weights to what the CM values re line-up composition.

@rdrunner "Just my opinion, but I can't stand high strikeout players." .... absolutely...i'm with you there....they're right up there with pitchers that walk.. ;)
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Re: AI manager ... toggle

Postby DDBBAdmin » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:04 pm

Just letting you know, I am listening! I will add the ability to adjust the CM logic for building lineups to Version 7.

Thanks for the suggestions!
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Re: AI manager ... toggle

Postby johnnybravo17 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:09 pm

Great stuff.

In the beginning, I actually toyed with putting a modified OPS column in DDBBXSV, something along the lines of the work of Tom Tango, who was my original influence for the idea: http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/why_does_17obpslg_make_sense/

The purpose would have been to construct lineups in DDBB with DDBBXSV open in a separate window ... so that this value was available for use. I tend to do this anyway, as I find it simpler than using the game's interface alone. In the end, I couldn't decide upon a fixed value for the modifier (1.7, 1.8, or something in between) just from my reading, and never got around to doing any serious analysis of my own. So it didn't get done.

Eventually, I hit upon the idea of just choosing the #1 and #2 hitters using straight OBP, and doing so before the #5 and #6 hitters were chosen. It isn't perfect, but goes a long way towards addressing the problem for most rosters, and is far less time consuming than manually calculating 1.7*OBP + SLG for ~15 hitters/team * ~30 teams/library * x number of libraries every time I decide it's time to change rosters around for the various replays I have in progress. So OPS winds up being useful primarily for it's high availability ... and no other reason. It's the "Mc Donalds" of summary offensive stats, if you will. It's certainly not the best, but it's familiar, consistent, and readily available. When you speak of OPS, everyone has had enough experience with it to where they know enough about what you're talking about to instantly establish a frame of reference.

I never thought for a second about an in-game option to even display a calculated value ... let alone have the computer AI actually take it into account. That would be brilliant ... and would save more time still.
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